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Can I go on - 6/3/2011 9:41:37 AM
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tired
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Please help! Any ideas would be helpful. Is there anyway to get the truth out of a lying spouse. This has been going on for six years, rather it happened about six years ago and I have been waited for a confession. I have a lot of evidence but even so my husband continues to lie. My therapist says maybe he feels so bad that he cannot confess out of embarrassment and that I probably didn't do anything wrong that these things sometimes just happen even when we don't mean them to. Then tell the truth so its fair and I can make a decision. Instead I am sick, can't eat and can't trust my husband. If someone doesn't tell the truth then there is no apology, no remorse, no respect. How can I get up every morning and look at my husband and not feel like crying. I love my husband. He has been a good father and provider for 25 years but I just don't think I can live like this anymore. He has a secret with someone else and I am on the outside when I am supposed to be his best friend like it was before. Now we have lost all that and I fear it will never come back. When I try and talk to him about it he tells me I will never get another answer or he just walks away. Yet he tells me he loves me everyday, lets me into his emails and cell phone. No being sneaky like before for the past 3 years. All I want is the truth. Is that too much to ask?!
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RE: Can I go on - 6/4/2011 12:17:57 AM
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fiery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tired
Please help! Any ideas would be helpful. Is there anyway to get the truth out of a lying spouse. This has been going on for six years, rather it happened about six years ago and I have been waited for a confession. I have a lot of evidence but even so my husband continues to lie. My therapist says maybe he feels so bad that he cannot confess out of embarrassment and that I probably didn't do anything wrong that these things sometimes just happen even when we don't mean them to. Then tell the truth so its fair and I can make a decision. Instead I am sick, can't eat and can't trust my husband. If someone doesn't tell the truth then there is no apology, no remorse, no respect. How can I get up every morning and look at my husband and not feel like crying. I love my husband. He has been a good father and provider for 25 years but I just don't think I can live like this anymore. He has a secret with someone else and I am on the outside when I am supposed to be his best friend like it was before. Now we have lost all that and I fear it will never come back. When I try and talk to him about it he tells me I will never get another answer or he just walks away. Yet he tells me he loves me everyday, lets me into his emails and cell phone. No being sneaky like before for the past 3 years. All I want is the truth. Is that too much to ask?!
Welcome to Family Lobby, tired. :) Now you say you have evidence. Is that evidence 100% proof or just a suspicion? Either way, you have to ask yourself what good would come from an admission of guilt and why you need it so badly. Is it too much to ask...obviously from his refusal to discuss it, yes.
Hypothetically, if he said yes I did, what then? He's showing you he loves you by his actions, the way he's keeping everything transparent. He tells you he does everyday. I'm guessing he made a silly mistake that's over long ago and regrets it deeply. As your therapist said, it happens. He doesn't want to hurt you any more than he already has, that's obvious, or he would have discussed it more. He sounds like a good man actually, the way he's attempting to put it all behind you both.
Do you love him? That's the question. Would you love him any less if you knew it had happened for sure? Would you want a divorce or could you see it as one blip on the radar in 25 years of marriage? Six years is a long time to let something eat you up inside. You need to find some kind of peace within about this and decide it's okay to not know and to just let it go - if you plan to stay with him, that is. You can decide to do that, you know. Just like that, you can CHOOSE to let it go. Because it's always a choice whether you keep stressing yourself out about this or let it go for good and instead focus your energy on feeling better about yourself and your marriage and your life together. Or you can choose to let your suspicions win (which they are already when they are eating you up to such a degree, btw) and leave him without ever being sure. Which leaves you in the same position as you were before. You still wouldn't know.
Choice is simple-but it ain't easy. You have to decide what's more important to you: being right, or being married to this man.
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RE: Can I go on - 6/4/2011 8:00:32 AM
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tired
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Thank you Fiery. I don't know if this girl half his age calling our house and saying sorry she left the sheets a mess is proof - could be an immature joke. Her crying on my husbands shoulder that she thought she was pregnant with a married man's child - her calling on the phone on his way to work (I was bringing him that day) and asking him where he was even though he was an hour early and him responding "my wife doesn't let me out" I had just come back from a trip. I believe this was his way of letting her know I was with him. Him passing by various buildings she was working at when he didn't need to and him having her number in his cell phone when they had radios at work then telling me he would not call her again cause i said she sounded like trouble. Two days later he called her and made up some excuse that his boss asked him to. Well I like a dummy let it go!! I trusted him!! Six months later my daughter is looking at her Dad's cell phone to see what features it had and she says "What's this". In the little notebook section was a hidden direct connect Number with no name. I beeped it and it was a young girl. I asked my husbands friend for a copy of the cell bill since he had under his name. I looked and the day he was supposed to be helping his friend move a call from me came in 20 miles away to a tower near where she lives. (I checked with Nextel - if he was where he said he was they say it is not possible) He told me he didn't know whose direct connect it was and I asked maybe a friend used it or our son etc. Stupid me! He tells me he is going to bed and I'll have to deal with it. Treated me like a piece of crap. Then in morning he tells me to go in the store and when I come out - surprise!! - he knows who it is. I say how and he says I called it. I say why not in front of me and he proceeds to tell me it is the same girl who called our house, etc. and that the direct connect number must have popped in there when he deleted the number from his main directory. His friend who was married was dating her friend at the time. The reason I have had so much trouble with this is that he still works near her for the same company although she is married now. I feel stupid going around people who might know about this - other coworkers - I feel like i look like a fool. Also, if he lied about this, will he lie again? Is he here only because he was finally rejected? He was even stupid enough years later after much marriage therapy to go visit a friend who works right next to her when he knew this would iritate me and just three years ago when he didn't know I knew she moved to another town, he asked if we could take a drive to that town and he was looking for where she lived (my mother had a friend who lived in the same town and he tried to tell me it was a different road so he could go down it when he and I both knew it wasn't). This is why I am having such a hard time letting go although it has been three years and it's been okay actually sometimes we have lots of fun together and I do love him. Maybe I have OCD because I just can't get it out of my head sometime. I think there are some answers I need. I'm just not good with the lying thing. And he has lied about other things in the past and told me the truth 6 years later when the proof was right there the whole time - solid proof. Nothing to do with other women though. Small stupid stuff. There are many other "coincidences" but can't fit it all. If you have a minute let me know what you think - thank you.
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RE: Can I go on - 6/4/2011 12:07:03 PM
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ChristineB
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That's a tough one, but with everything boiled down it sounds like you don't trust him. That seems to be the bottom line. I would suggest, since no one has a crystal ball and can tell if he will or won't do it all again, to seek counseling.
It can't hurt and he should be open to making the relationship stronger. I also think it will help you.
I hope this helps.
_____________________________
The Traveling Pendant
My Mom's dying wish....
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RE: Can I go on - 6/4/2011 10:07:16 PM
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fiery
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Tired, thanks for the extra information. No wonder you were suspicious! She sounds like she was a bit of a nutcase, that girl, making stupid calls like that to the house. I know it's killing you that you don't know for sure one way or the other but honestly, I think sticking with the counseling would be a good idea, even if only to help you figure out in your own mind what you want to do. Because you didn't say what you thought you'd do if it turned out to be true after all.
I wouldn't worry about them working close by since you said before that he's very transparent now. Aside from asking him to get another job elsewhere, there's nothing much you can do about that. And chances are the other staff wouldn't know anyway because they are too busy dealing with their own lives.
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RE: Can I go on - 6/5/2011 10:06:38 AM
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tired
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Thank you both. I guess I could suggest counseling to him but we have gone before and he really doesn't speak much. Although at the time I was so angry I might have been kind of hostile. Maybe a new approach on my part would help. Fiery, I understand what you are saying. I don't know if I would leave or not because I do love him and I think the therapist is right and he is probably deeply ashamed whether is was EA, ,PA or just an attraction or obsession. He does show remorse just doesn't say he is remorseful and I guess that is what I need to hear. The other thing is if it was a one time thing and he thought OMG look what I did and ended it there I would be more understanding but this went on for quite some time - 8 months maybe more. I just feel like I deserve an explanation so I can make a decision. Another therapist thinks he won't tell me because he thinks I will leave. Thank you for all your help. I feel like I can't get it out of my system and sometimes I think I might end up in the psych ward!
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RE: Can I go on - 6/6/2011 8:43:17 AM
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ChristineB
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Well, maybe you could try going to counseling alone, to get a handle of your feelings. Mayeb that would allow you a more insightful view on what's happening within your relationship?
Just a thought...
_____________________________
The Traveling Pendant
My Mom's dying wish....
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RE: Can I go on - 7/3/2011 8:21:21 AM
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tired
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Hi Fiery - Christine B and others! Guess what! My husband got laid-off and I am happy!!! Would you believe it - happy about a lay-off. Now he doesn't work near HER anymore. I've thought long and hard about your suggestions - I guess it wouldn't really matter as you say if he did validate this - I don't think I would leave anyway - I do love him and I have started more therapy on my own and when we get over some legal issues of my sons we are both going to marriage counseling. I believe our marriage is worth saving. I honestly think he was lonely as I was out of state helping my daughter for months - she started flirting and he got caught up in something he never saw coming or became obsessed or something. Not making excuses for sure - this doesn't even feel like me writing this:) I've just tried to use a different approach to my thinking - Honestly I think what bothered me the most was that I was second best and that other people knew this and I looked like a fool. Is that selfish????Anyway we have a beautiful family and I think people just get divorced too fast today. I said for better for worse til death do us part and I meant it so that is what I am going to try for. None of us are perfect and no, one blip in 25 years should be forgivable. (Let's just hope I can maintain this thought pattern and newly acquired sanity)!! Have a good holiday all!!!
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RE: Can I go on - 7/3/2011 8:26:37 AM
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ChristineB
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Hi tired, well I'm glad you are in a good frame of mind. Just remember though, and not to rain on your parade, not much changed. Be strong, stay true and enjoy your relief! happy 4th to you!!
_____________________________
The Traveling Pendant
My Mom's dying wish....
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RE: Can I go on - 7/3/2011 8:40:00 AM
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tired
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Oh and I meant one blip should be forgivable - my error! I know - I am being very cautious because I am afraid I will get back into the rage mode again - I am more trusting now on and off after three years of showing "good behavior". I guess they say it takes years to work these things out.
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RE: Can I go on - 7/3/2011 11:01:25 PM
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fiery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tired
Hi Fiery - Christine B and others! Guess what! My husband got laid-off and I am happy!!! Would you believe it - happy about a lay-off. Now he doesn't work near HER anymore. I've thought long and hard about your suggestions - I guess it wouldn't really matter as you say if he did validate this - I don't think I would leave anyway - I do love him and I have started more therapy on my own and when we get over some legal issues of my sons we are both going to marriage counseling. I believe our marriage is worth saving. I honestly think he was lonely as I was out of state helping my daughter for months - she started flirting and he got caught up in something he never saw coming or became obsessed or something. Not making excuses for sure - this doesn't even feel like me writing this:) I've just tried to use a different approach to my thinking - Honestly I think what bothered me the most was that I was second best and that other people knew this and I looked like a fool. Is that selfish????Anyway we have a beautiful family and I think people just get divorced too fast today. I said for better for worse til death do us part and I meant it so that is what I am going to try for. None of us are perfect and no, one blip in 25 years should be forgivable. (Let's just hope I can maintain this thought pattern and newly acquired sanity)!! Have a good holiday all!!!
You know what, I'm very happy for you both this happened and even happier to see such a positive mindset coming from you, tired! I think you've made a very big change mentally about all this and this is your reward. I don't believe in coincidences. When we focus constantly on something, the Universe complies to make it happen, whether that focus is good or bad. Our thoughts create our reality. If you're constantly thinking "I'm never going to have any peace of mind until he's away from her, wish he didn't work there anymore", the Universe does its best to present us with that reality. Doors open for us all the time to resolve problems and half the trouble is when they do we don't always recognize them for what they are. You're getting your wishes, can you see? He's not working with her. You'll have more time together to talk and figure things out. You're both up for counseling to make that happen. I honestly feel good things lie ahead and I'm very intuitive even if I do say so myself. 
I never ever got a bad vibe about your husband, you know, and when I replied to you the first time that was what I was trying to convey. I felt more of a sense of regret and shame than anything. I feel he's being 100% honest too when he professes how much he still loves you. He's not a bad man...just slipped a little. I gave up expecting perfection from people long ago because I'm incapable of being that way myself. It's only fair I give them the right to be imperfect too. And I think the therapist was spot on about being scared you'd leave if he told you everything. You're not and never will be second best. If that was the case he wouldn't have been so worried about you leaving. 25 years is a long time to be together, much more than many of us manage and you don't stay together than long without weathering some turmoils along the way.
Put the rage mode aside - it takes up too much space in your mind and heart. You need that room for recovery and renewal. There's still a lot of love in your marriage on both sides and that's going to be the cornerstone you'll both build upon. Good luck and keep us posted. And don't dare vanish on us! It's been good to have you around. :)
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RE: Can I go on - 7/4/2011 2:39:17 PM
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tired
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Thank you guys! Yes, Fiery, you have a different way of thinking about things and sometimes when people phrase things the right way it can kind of get you thinking in different directions. Sometimes we get into such negativity from anger we can't get out. I think I've had enough of that - it didn't help. I also have a very good therapist now and I guess just because I want my husband to tell me doesn't mean that he actually can!! Just because I would handle things that way doesn't mean he can. And if he can someday, I guess he will when his time is right. I realize that the best times I have in life are the ones spent with him so?? As you stated he does show me every day in so many ways that he loves me. I guess that counts for something. Anyway, hope you guys had a great holiday. I love this forum - people are honest but kind.
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RE: Can I go on - 7/5/2011 6:54:50 PM
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fiery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tired
Thank you guys! Yes, Fiery, you have a different way of thinking about things and sometimes when people phrase things the right way it can kind of get you thinking in different directions. Sometimes we get into such negativity from anger we can't get out. I think I've had enough of that - it didn't help. I also have a very good therapist now and I guess just because I want my husband to tell me doesn't mean that he actually can!! Just because I would handle things that way doesn't mean he can. And if he can someday, I guess he will when his time is right. I realize that the best times I have in life are the ones spent with him so?? As you stated he does show me every day in so many ways that he loves me. I guess that counts for something. Anyway, hope you guys had a great holiday. I love this forum - people are honest but kind.
Yes, yes and yes.  I'm very glad it helped even a little, tired. And I'm only the messenger, goodness! We often get a little help from above on finding the words to share and I feel this was one of those times. You knew all that already, of course, deep down...just needed to hear it from someone else's lips (or hands I guess) to bring it to the forefront of your mind. :) I'm a straight shooter and always honest in what I say, you can count on that. It doesn't always win me friends because some don't like what they hear but oh well, that's the chance they take when they ask for an honest opinion and get it. 
quote:
Wow! Great words Kay!I wish I a friend like you around when I was going through my tough times in marriage. I never thought of looking at things like that!
And thanks Christine for your kind words! I doubt I would have been much good to you back then. I'm still very much a work in progress myself when it comes to letting go of anger about exes and it's taken a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get there and change how I think about things. Takes forever to undo decades of thinking a certain way and years to be ridding yourself of all those same old thoughts, but I can say I honestly know myself much better now than I did back then. All those messy end years of the marriage were just something I had to go through to enable the learning process to happen. :) I don't think I'll ever completely lose all that anger and hurt but I can see it for what it is and choose to live with it as is. That's good enough for me.
Which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Richard Bach's Illusions.
Learning is finding out what you already know.
Doing is demonstrating that you know it.
Teaching is reminding others that they know just as well as you.
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RE: Can I go on - 7/7/2011 12:28:04 AM
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fiery
Posts: 5730
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristineB
Love it. Actually, within the past year or so I spotted my ex, been 15 years now...spotted him on facebook and laid right into him. We haven't spoken in at least 15 yrs, but he saddled me with about 20k in debt, not to mention the cheating, lying etc.
Shockingly, in his mind he was perfect and owes nothing...but he did say he will pray for me....so there is that. 
Time to let go I suppose.
He said what? *cleans out ears with a cotton bud* I'm so sorry Chris but I can't hold it in! It's so ludicrous it's funny! 
Soooo, that must make everything alright then. Let's see, did he promise to do it daily? $20K divided by what, oh about another 50 years you've probably got left..so that's ...50 years@ 365 days...*mutter, mutter*....about $1.09 a day a prayer's worth apparently. Bargain if you ask me. 
Chris, seriously, my friend -in answer to "Time to let it go" -yes! Let it go. No suppose about it, just do it! You know why? Because what you're holding onto is only eating you up, not him. He's apparently not got a care in the world about it so where does that leave you? Holding onto anger that's doing you not one bit of good and about a situation you have no power to change anyway. So let it go and be done with it.
Did you ever hear the story of Buddha and the unwanted gift? I'll post it here.
quote:
One day Buddha was walking through a village. A very angry and rude young man came up and began insulting him. "You have no right teaching others," he shouted. "You are as stupid as everyone else. You are nothing but a fake."
Buddha was not upset by these insults. Instead he asked the young man "Tell me, if you buy a gift for someone, and that person does not take it, to whom does the gift belong?"
The man was surprised to be asked such a strange question and answered, "It would belong to me, because I bought the gift."
The Buddha smiled and said, "That is correct. And it is exactly the same with your anger.
If you become angry with me and I do not get insulted, then the anger falls back on you.
You are then the only one who becomes unhappy, not me. All you have done is hurt yourself."
"If you want to stop hurting yourself, you must get rid of your anger and become loving instead. When you hate others, you yourself become unhappy. But when you love others, everyone is happy."
The young man listened closely to these wise words of the Buddha. "You are right, o Enlightened One, "he said. "Please teach me the path of love. I wish to become your follower."
The Buddha answered kindly, "Of course. I teach anyone who truly wants to learn. Come with me."
Now you have been unwell for a long time with lots of ailments on and off over the last few years in particular, yes? I'm not giving away any confidences here as you've talked about them here on the board. And they never seem to quite get to the root of them. Maybe you could think about the concept of dis-ease as opposed to disease. Basically it's about illness being caused not by viruses or disease or whatever, but that its beginnings lie within us and surface most when we're not at peace with ourselves. When we resolve the dis-ease, we feel better and can get better.
I know that sounds a bit "out there" and I'm sure not 100% convinced myself that's wholly true. I can see merit in it though if I analyze it logically from my own experience. I know when I'm upset or stressed for example my health can go downhill very fast shortly afterward.
So even if there's just a teeny grain of truth in that concept, I think that releasing the anger you've held for a decade and a half towards him will help you feel better every way - physically, emotionally and mentally. If that's not a good reason to, I don't know what is.
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RE: Can I go on - 7/8/2011 9:43:07 PM
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fiery
Posts: 5730
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tired
Hey Christine,
Seems like you are in a good relationship now right? For quite sometime? Let the other one go. Don't let all that anger eat you up. The Buddha quote is right on. Someone told me that one day when I had road rage because someone cut me off. My passenger looked at me and said "Do you think all your yelling is aggravating him? It's just hurting you". I really thought about it and I know you can't compare this with what you went through but the quote is soo true. He is not hurt - he is just, apparently, praying???? Sounds like you had a moron and now you have a great guy you are happy with? And by the way, I think you asked on here one time about if it is strange not getting married after being together with someone for so long - I think as long as you are happy what difference does a piece of paper make - don't let anyone influence you. It's your life. We all have to do what is right for us.
I hope the path you are on now keeps leading you in a good direction. Have a happy day!!
Well said, tired! Two thumbs up to that. 
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