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Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/12/2009 11:51:33 PM
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Rosydon
Posts: 3
Joined: 8/12/2009
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My daughter until the age of about 11 was a perfect child. From this age firstly she became very tearful and dramatic which I put down to hormones and for in the years that followed things have become progressively worse. She is still very good in school and to others outside of the family she is an angel. She is a master manipulator and a self professed princess and believes that the whole world and those in it are there for her use and abuse and her needs. I have nevere been a permissive parent and having been a lone parent until I met my husband 5 years ago it was my way and the children thrived on the boundaries and rules and also the postive reinforcement I gave them. My husband and I experienced some problems early in our marriage and these problems spilled out of our home and I turned to family. My problems became the talking point and as much as I turned to family as I believed it was the one place to get non judgemental and unconditional help unfortunately for some that has not been the case. My husband is American and I am from the UK. It took me a long while to decide but a year ago we set the ball in motion to emigrate with my husband to the USA. It was a horrendous process as my youngest daughters father opposed me taking my daughter with us not for any fearful reasons just that he is a very unpleasant person. I tried to give him the opportunity to be a real father to the children but for years he simply treated them at his own convenience, no financial aid and a dad when it fitted his life. My youngest daughter was positive and always professed she wanted to emigrate but strangely my 16 year old who had a relationship with him however never treated him as a father and had almost severed all ties with him (he is not her father) suddenly after originally saying she wanted to go decided she did not and since has developed a relationship with him to facilitate her remaining in the UK. We visited our new home back in October last year and she returend positive about the move and within weeks changed her mind. She said it was becasue she didnt want to leave her friends and then she had a boyfriend also. Since then it evolved into she did not want to leave because of school. Running concurrently with this change of heart was her turning 16 and for a few months she kept reminding me of all she could do when she was 16 almost like a warning of things to come. Literally from her 16th birthday she changed dramtically. She had already developed a relationship with a particular group of as she refers to them "the girls" a cross between sex in the city/mean girls and any other cliched american girlie group depicted on tv. It became all about the hair.the makeup, the boys and progressed to nights out and discovering she was going to bars. Although I am not concerned so much about drinking or drugs it was the overall attitude of "I can do as I please now as the law here say at 16 I can and there is not a **** thing you can do about it". I was emigrating, selling a house my husband had already moved and I was doing this all alone on top of which I had a defiant teenager pushing the boundaries daily. So I made her choose. I said to remain under my roof she abided by the law if she was not going to and was insistent on staying when we left I would facilitate this by asking a family member to become her guardian. I chose my sister and her husband and for reasons. My sister has 4 boys from 17 to 24. She has a topsy turvy house, no boundaries and leaves them to their own devices. I thought that when she realised what a disorganised household was like the opposite of ours she would realise what she had. I do not condemn my sister as for the grace of God she has raised great, intelligent kids. However, they have been allowed to drink and smoke from 16 in their home and she has an attitude of "well better under my roof where I can see them". I dont go for that and unfortunatley I made a hugeeee mistake as instead of hating it there she loves it and is more defiant about not wanting to leave. They do care for her well but she has worsened (unsuprisingly) in her attitude towards me. In fact for 7 months she has set the wheels in motion solidifying her decision to stay. She has pitted adults against each other and wrapped everyone around her finger to the point that my realtionship with members of my family have disintegrated as they do not see the way she behaves as to them she is sweetness and light. They give her money, treat her like a princess and unbeknown to them she has them jumping through hoops and now I am the bad guy and of course the problems my husband and I had are being used as an excuse. All relationships have problems to work through and I took every step to make sure that my children did not suffer any backlash as they are my priority. I am very concerned about her change in personality and more concerned about her askew thinking and her manipulation and mal treatment of her sister and of myself and my husband. She will be polite and couteous to get something and as soon as she has it she is back to being extremely disrespectful and mean. She talks to me like I am the hired help, does NOTHING for others and is totally self orientated. I said to her recently about the rules of life to which she said there are no rules to life you just do as you please ...to an extent. I asked her what she meant by to an extent, why not go all the way, is it not the rules to life and acting appropriately that stop you. She couldnt answer. I am now in the USA with my husband and my 2 daughters. To activate her visa which allows her a green card she had to come with us under the proviso she satys for 5 weeks until it arrives. Initially after 3 days of getting here and discovering in actual fact she didnt need to stay that we buy her a ticket for 2 weeks long enough for her to get a tan and go back to the UK. I said no. She then informed me that she "knew what I was at" and I was going to try to get her to stay but she had already put in place with the "facilitators" that should this occur they would get her a ticket back. She tried to get the household divided again using her sister as bait as she had done for a few years, the disrespect of myself and my husband, not complying with the rules, pushing the boundaries. Simple things like setting the table, using the computer, helping out all became an arguing point again until we nipped it in the bud. She talks to me like she is on my level, tells me about her friends and how funny it was that they were all going to get in the car and drive a couple of hundred miles to another city. She talks like she is 22 and has all this freedom and I listen and say nothing as I know if I do it will end up in an arguement. My concern is I KNOW in my heart that by sending her back I will be allowing her to enter that environment where she will act this age and she is only turning 17. I know she plays people, I know she will fly under the radar and I know ultimatley she may land herself in trouble in some way. I KNOW with me she will be safe and boundaried and will progress at an appropriate speed but back there she will continue with the attitude and before long she will be sitting in my sisters house with her bottle of beer and her boyfriend staying over as this is condoned. I know fundamentally she has been raised differently and her morals will kick in but for so long as she is like a kid in a candy store and it will progress prematurely. She wants to go to university, wants to go back to school and get her grades which have not particularily faltered so she has stayed on the right path there. I just know that she will never tap into her full potential as she will not have the positive influence around her and she is a follower not a leader and this is concerning. So the question is do I make her stay and suffer the problems to come or do I let her leave after 5 weeks as I know how obstinate she is and where her head is and at the minute her friends are way more important than her family. She has virtually shut me out of her life for the last 7 months whilst she has lived with my sister and my sister has actually stood in my way which dumbfounds me as she has 4 boys who have each given her identical problems. That in itself is another story. I know she is in there underneath this facade of brattish, spoilt, princess nonsense. I know that good child is begging to come out again and I know I can bring her round but I am fighting a losing battle when certain individuals have facilitated her options and disrespected me as a parent. Any advice?
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/13/2009 12:09:09 AM
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Rosydon
Posts: 3
Joined: 8/12/2009
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Excuse the length of this post however it is condensed as much as possible and still doesnt touch the depths.
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/13/2009 12:54:55 PM
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dianerene
Posts: 2105
Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: sunny so cal, usa
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While I don't claim to know all the laws you face in the UK, if you have already given up guardianship, I don't know that there is much you can do short of going to court to get it back. Is she legally an adult there?
If you honestly feel she is better with you, then take her in. In the US you still have till she is 18. you are her mother, trust your instincts. but be prepared for more of the same. the attitude and disprespect will not change over night. family counseling is certainly an option, but it's gonna be a lot of hard work in the meantime ... and do you want to inflict that on your younger daughter?
I normally don't flip flop, meaning, I would normally say this is your child, you need to pull her in and take control. But being from another country, where laws and life are so much different, I am wondering if it's time to take the tough love approach and say "you are an adult, figure it out. I love you but I do not support your life style and will be here if you need me." the family that she is manipulating will come around and eventually see what she is doing. you cannot change them or make them see it before they are ready. they are adults, if they are going to let a child take advantage of them, it's their own ignorance.
how ever you handle this, I wish you lots of luck. it is hard when your child is struggling, especially when they cannot or will not see the potential they are giving up. unfortunately, we as parents all have to let go one day and give our children the opportunity to make it on their own. we can only hope that the lessons we have tried to instill will be used, but we cannot control them.
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/14/2009 10:33:03 AM
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fiery
Posts: 5730
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At 16 in the UK you're legally an adult. You can work and get married. The only things you can't do is drink until you're 18 and get a driving license at 17. Let her go back and get on with your life here. Me, I'd be cutting her loose for good. You can't control her now and won't be able to in the future the older she gets. All you can do is hope she sees sense eventually. Tell her you're buying the ticket and wave her goodbye. Perhaps the realization that she can't do what she wants AND have you to back her up financially and emotionally will be enough to shake her. She can't just keep bouncing around and being disruptive to everyone with this I'll stay/I'll go nonsense. I don't agree at all with letting disrespectful kids drain the life out of you. She has a place to stay and family to watch her. Even if it's not to your high standards your sister was good enough to take her in and be willing to have her. It's not like you're throwing her out in the street.
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/27/2009 9:34:56 PM
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Rosydon
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Joined: 8/12/2009
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These were both extremely helpful pieces of advice. My daughter has been here 3 weeks now and although she is still being extremely moody and has still been having moments and still has a bad attitude at times in the way she talks to me and to my husband we are beginning to reach some understanding by standing firm and showing her that there are consequences for her disrespect. My husband is a lot better at standing firm than I am and refuses to react to her and instead calmly makes it plain he is the adult and she will do as she is told or she looses privilege, the computer, or if refuses to eat with us she doesnt snack on rubbish all night, she helps out or she looses out. I can see she is beginning a little to realise herself she is behaving like a silly little girl stamping her feet whilst trying to convince us she is an adult that should be allowed to take her life in her own hands.
She is extremely intelligent but is still a very immature and possibly more immature for a girl her age. I have tried to communicate with her in a better way and I have always tended to rationalise way too much or alternatively become exacerbated and allowed her to get to me and infuriate me to where I would raise my voice. I am allowing her to do the work and am attempting to just give her a brief synopsis of what her attitude at that moment is causing and how if she just acted differently it would alleviate the problems. For example she refuses to eat dinner, which we sit down as a family to each evening and always have, she wants to snack and eat when she chooses and doesnt like all our "rules". So tonight I simply said No after she attempted to eat a snack before dinner then informing me when I said No she was having such and such for dinner she argued she didnt like that food (although she eats it all the time). She stomped and huffed and when dinner was ready she said she wasnt hungry. I calmly said that she was obviously hungry but annoyed she wasnt allowed a snack, why not just stop huffing, cutting her nose off despite her face and just come eat dinner and not cause a bad feeling in the house and I left her room very calmly for her to figure it out instead of arguing with her or telling her to do it...end of discussion. She appeared 2 minutes later, sat down and ate every bite and was pleasant.
I am trying a small step approach and today got the forms to enroll her in school. She says it is a waste of time as she will only be there for 2 weeks as even if she likes it she is still leaving and before she goes to school she wants a guarantee from me and my husband we will return her to the UK in 2 weeks. I am taking a small step approach and have done since she arrived. It worked to get her to stay for the 5 weeks, it worked to get her possibly through the doors of the school by saying she needs to at least try it and I am moving the goal posts slowly so she gets comfortable slowly and does not become overwhelmed. I am praying she will get into school and realise that her academic needs may be catered for more so here as the school has a faculty committed to the career in journalism and media she wants to pursue with a journalism university here also. I am praying she will meet some good people and is surrounded by a good group of guiders and she feels positive enough to maybe stay longer. My hope is she stays for a year to try it. She has a guarantee that should she wish to return to her school in the uk with her grades she has just got in her latest exams she can pick up where she left off albeit she will be a year behind. This way she will have explored all avenues and not lost out on this opportunity that may turn out to be the making of her.
As for the guardianship, it was never done through the courts I simply advised school who were aware of the whole situation anyway and our imminent emigration that to facilitate her remaining in the UK I was transfering responsibilty to my sister and her husband and in future all correspondence in my absence was to be made through them.
I do agree she does not deserve this in many ways and her behaviour has warranted me cutting her loose but my heart is telling me that if I just stick with this for longer I may help her more in the long run and I have busted my behind for this child for so many years I feel like if I gave up now it would be cutting and running when the road got really tough. I know she will hate me, I am willing to take this as in the long run I hope she respects me for it down the line when she is through this period in her life.
Her younger sister does not like her at all although deep down I know she loves her. She feels she uses her and says it to her all the time. She verbalises to me she is selfish and a brat and I am concerned also that she has stuck to her guns through this whole process and should be enjoying herself now and her sister once again is hogging centre stage although I talk to her all the time and make it known to her that her sister's behaviour is not condoned and is wrong and we are not allowing her to be brushed aside and appreciate her good behaviour and she is rewarded for that.
I am under no illusions that we might actually be putting my daughter on a plane in a few weeks. If that happens it will be after a total and complete picture and opportunity has been put in place. If she walks out of those school gates in 2 weeks and refuses to go back after in any way verbalising positively about school here she knows what she is giving up and in that event she will be returning to the UK not with our blessing but against our better judgement. When and if she does she will be standing on her own 2 feet financially and the people that may be verbalising thEIr support and encouragement of her returning better understand the commitment and responsibilty they are taking onboard and had better step forward and make this clear to me before she gets that ticket as I am never going to have it thrown in my face that I abandoned her. This was actually being said to me when she chose to stay there as she never told anybody the full extent of our discussions or her behaviour that lead to me facilitating originally her remaining in the UK to finish off the last school year. Then once I arranged for her to come to validate her visa I was THEN accused of trying to take her against her will even though she agreed to come willingly but complained when it wasnt going to be on her terms. All way too ridiculous and proposterous a situation to have occurred as I was totally undermined as her parent and this fed into her bad attitude towards me as she listened to certain adults having opinions and interfering in a situation that was none of their business and had thier own agenda to fulfill.
So that is the situation as it stands. I have taken both advice given onboard for each eventuality and it sounds very sensible to me.
Thankyou.
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/28/2009 12:38:46 PM
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dianerene
Posts: 2105
Joined: 10/31/2006
Location: sunny so cal, usa
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WOW! sounds like you have made some wonderful progress. I do hope that your daughter sees she can gain so much by staying with you, but you are right in not assuming all will go smoothly. I am glad that things have settled somewhat over there and that you, your hubby and youngest daughter have been able to stand strong and support each other. WONDERFUL NEWS :)
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RE: Difficult 16 year old daughter - 8/28/2009 6:38:47 PM
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fiery
Posts: 5730
Joined: 11/4/2007
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You have my respect and admiration for staying sane in amongst all that Rosydon. Please keep us posted. You and your husband maintaining a united front will make a lot of difference so stay firm as he does. You're doing grand. :)
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